Curse

Inner Salbat · Sep 08, 2008, 05:56 PM // 17:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

I don't think it's necessarily lack of knowledge, but a linguistic technique used to point out your unrealistic assumptions and stereotyping and lack of solid logical arguments.

as far as the afking as a monk thing, it still works in HM in many places, you just have to be more careful not to pull more than one mob at a time and allow adequate additional afk time to allow energy recharge. with flagging and a bow, it's not that bad. (where as in NM you could pull 3 mobs at a time with no consequence). but most importantly afking NM gets you to outposts and gets you to armor crafters, elite skills, quest items and end game items, while afking HM doesn't really have any reasonable rewards that warrants even afking. (who really cares about farming titles, when life's full of other more fun things.)

I can't decided if you lying, using some sort of bot or blasting away huge amounts of gold consumable items, after vanquishing every area in the game but 3 I'd be dead if I tried that kind of stupidity.

Kenagalaz · Sep 08, 2008, 06:33 PM // 18:33

well, i haven't done much vanquishing (like 10 mostly from faction&proph), most of the HM i've done have been in mission. and it certainly isn't one build to rule it all, some places i spec more aoe healing, some places more hex removal, etc. It's hard to deny though, esp in proph and factions, how much easier it is to plow through (or in my case afk, leaving 7 AI fighting) in earlier chapters.

a really good experienced guild group in urgoz took about 3hrs at the end of factions, now, it takes a little over 30 min.

there are pictures of people beating missions equipt with an empty skill bar and 7 henchman or 4 henchman and 3 heroes, some in HM, though majority in NM. I can't remember how this conversation started and how it ties into 7 heroes or not, but it's always been faster (and less restarts) for me to just take heroes than PUGs, and have noticed that it gets significantly easier with each new release (more overpowered skills)

Amy Awien · Sep 08, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

+ no matter what if you play with other players you learn more.

I doubt that, heroes forced me to come up with decent bars for most of the professions and thought me more about builds then playing in PuGs would have.

And tactically ... PuGs still don't stick to the plan.

Quote:

most the people that avoid pugs are bad themselves, but just dont know it cause they have not seen how far the skill curve goes

I must be bad, and if I don't know it, at least I'm inclined to believe there's plenty of skill-curve beyond what I've learned.

What do you suggest to increase the participation in The PuG Experience?

Making the alternative H/H less attractive, by adjusting the availability of heroes, is not likely to bring players into PuGs, less heroes will just mean this big group of mediocre players is either going to use more henchmen, or drive them away from the game.

What do you suggest to improve The PuG Experience?

Do you, - we, all of us - join them to help them get along? Shall we team up as the Adventurers of Ascalon and guide the newer players? It might help, a good start for new players makes them happy, happy players make their friends buy copies, more players means more playing

JDRyder · Sep 08, 2008, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

What do you suggest to increase the participation in The PuG Experience?

Making the alternative H/H less attractive, by adjusting the availability of heroes, is not likely to bring players into PuGs, less heroes will just mean this big group of mediocre players is either going to use more henchmen, or drive them away from the game.

Then i ask why are they playing GW if they dont want to play with other players? I dont think any1 looked at the GW box and saw "play alone" and thats what made you buy the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

What do you suggest to improve The PuG Experience?

Do you, - we, all of us - join them to help them get along? Shall we team up as the Adventurers of Ascalon and guide the newer players? It might help, a good start for new players makes them happy, happy players make their friends buy copies, more players means more playing

many times ive stopped w/e i was doing to help some random guy do a mission, sometimes 1/2 - 3/4 of the campaign and then sending them to guru after :P.

more people pugging helps.

more people using heros does not.

Sleeper Service · Sep 08, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Then i ask why are they playing GW if they dont want to play with other players? I dont think any1 looked at the GW box and saw "play alone" and thats what made you buy the game.

many times ive stopped w/e i was doing to help some random guy do a mission, sometimes 1/2 - 3/4 of the campaign and then sending them to guru after :P.

more people pugging helps.

more people using heros does not.

actually having the OPTION to play alone (properly) is a big big part of the reason i bought this game.

and yes thats written on the box.

eximiis · Sep 08, 2008, 09:27 PM // 21:27

Yes i help some ppl in mission/quest

And yes i could use 7 heroes. Why having 7 heroes would make me stop pugging ?? i'd still help ppl but when going solo, i'd like to have 7 heroes testing things, killing random things with having Aidan Shoting 2 ignited arrows !! or having Danika standing there wanding with her staff thinking wow i must do alot of damage with that staff !! or having brutus using vamp gaze ........

we should ahve the choice. and still pug !

Martin Firestorm · Sep 08, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

At this point in GW's life cycle, PUGs have become a complete failure. They were ok when we were all new to the game, but decent players mostly avoid them now so the chance of ending up with too many poor players to permit success are very high. Its just gotten too frustrating. But I don't see 7 heroes happening ever.

So I suggest making do as best you can--go to wiki and learn the hench skill bars for the various campaigns. Not just their elites, but the whole bars. And note that the same hench can have different bars in different campaigns, or even within the same one. Then try to build some synergy into your H/H group by taking the hench skills into consideration. Its not the total party build you'd prefer to make, but is far more effective than just adding henches based on little more than their professions. Its really a pretty fun challenge.

Kashrlyyk · Sep 08, 2008, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

actually having the OPTION to play alone (properly) is a big big part of the reason i bought this game.

and yes thats written on the box.

QFT, I would have never tried GW without that.

JDRyder · Sep 08, 2008, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Why having 7 heroes would make me stop pugging ??'

may not "stop it" but it will hurt it more for sure. Before heros it was pugs or henchmen, both were bad "by today's standers" in skill level and the IA for henchmen was not as good as it was now, so more people pugged. If your trying to avoid pugs cause you get frustrated, why? its pve, and a game, you'll get over it. If you stop only looking at why pugs are bad you'd find out it may be more fun then you think and better for the game overall.

Inner Salbat · Sep 09, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

well, i haven't done much vanquishing (like 10 mostly from faction&proph), most of the HM i've done have been in mission. and it certainly isn't one build to rule it all, some places i spec more aoe healing, some places more hex removal, etc. It's hard to deny though, esp in proph and factions, how much easier it is to plow through (or in my case afk, leaving 7 AI fighting) in earlier chapters.

Alright that at least looks half honest considering you've not completed the entire lot you don't have the over all picture yet, there are enemies that I can see being able to afk them because there easy, but they are there for different purpose there easy because they are a source of DP removal from some of the harder enemies to combat, the trouble is if you clear out all the easy stuff and then bump into <insert over powered boss/group here> then your chances of losing are greater.

Prophecies - Apart from Rotscale was fairly okay the learning curve was harder because I'd not done much hard mode missions / areas.
Factions - The stuff I learned in Prophecies oddly didn't help much and for me was the hardest of them all to complete.
Nightfall - Vanquished but missions incomplete due to the fact I refuse to break up my synergy and be forced to put hero's in my party I don't want because I'm limited to 3, vanquishing was on par with Factions in some areas even harder.
EoTN - 3 areas to go, and I've used 1 consumable set and 1 power stone so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

At this point in GW's life cycle, PUGs have become a complete failure. They were ok when we were all new to the game, but decent players mostly avoid them now so the chance of ending up with too many poor players to permit success are very high. Its just gotten too frustrating. But I don't see 7 heroes happening ever.

That's rather a defeatist attitude any company that ignores it's community when it is over overwhelmingly obvious that the community is in favor of something as shown by the poll, would be morons to ignore it.

further more I've been thinking of ways to draw there attention to it maybe stage a sit in L.A or something.

Shasgaliel · Sep 09, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That's rather a defeatist attitude any company that ignores it's community when it is over overwhelmingly obvious that the community is in favor of something as shown by the poll, would be morons to ignore it.

further more I've been thinking of ways to draw there attention to it maybe stage a sit in L.A or something.

500 out of 0.5k users in your opinion are enough to force Anet to implement this? In this thread there were several posts explaining why this poll is not reliable. If you make a poll that Anet should give the money back at the moment they switch off GW servers you will have almost all community voting for yes but will this mean that Anet really have to do that? If you want their attention write to them maybe you will get a direct answer.

DreamWind · Sep 09, 2008, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

QFT, I would have never tried GW without that.

Heros didn't even exist until Nightfall...

Inner Salbat · Sep 09, 2008, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

500 out of 0.5k users in your opinion are enough to force Anet to implement this? In this thread there were several posts explaining why this poll is not reliable. If you make a poll that Anet should give the money back at the moment they switch off GW servers you will have almost all community voting for yes but will this mean that Anet really have to do that? If you want their attention write to them maybe you will get a direct answer.

Firstly if polls are invalid then every president of America is elected by fraud heck why stop there every elected official to a government position over the entire world is there by electoral fraud, on second thoughts maybe America isn't the best example.

Secondly I have emailed them on many other matters and you know the reply I got? it's always the same automated email.. "Go discuss it on a forum", they never give any direct opinion by email other than the automatic reply.

Thirdly that is a stupid request to ask for everyones money back, it's not even a realistic request that is feasible, however requesting something be put in the game that is reasonable isn't, you cannot go 2 extremes and call the other invalid if one of them is out right unrealistic.

DreamWind · Sep 09, 2008, 12:22 PM // 12:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Firstly if polls are invalid then every president of America is elected by fraud heck why stop there every elected official to a government position over the entire world is there by electoral fraud, on second thoughts maybe America isn't the best example.

Actually America's current president WAS elected by fraud...but that is beside the point.

The point is I could easily make another poll worded differently that would invalidate the results of this thread. I could make a poll asking "do you think Guild Wars was better when it was just Prophecies or just Prophecies and Factions" and I can guarantee it would get a resounding yes. Guess what didn't exist back then? Heros. I could also make a poll "do you think the community is an important part of Guild Wars" and that would also almost assuredly get a yes even though heros create a divide in the community and make it so you don't even have to interact with the community.

So yes, this poll is invalid. I wouldn't be shocked if Anet listened to it though. They've listened to every garbage idea over the years might as well do this one! (Even though I don't really care if this one happens or not).

Inner Salbat · Sep 09, 2008, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The point is I could easily make another poll worded differently that would invalidate the results of this thread. I could make a poll asking "do you think Guild Wars was better when it was just Prophecies or just Prophecies and Factions" and I can guarantee it would get a resounding yes. Guess what didn't exist back then?

Your asking a question if the game was better 2 years ago not a question about heros they are not related and that is a bad comparison, you cannot invalid a poll with data from something that has absolutely no connection too another one, you could invalidate this poll by asking if the game was better with or without henchmen/heros that would at least be in the same ball park.

And yes as I said on second thoughts.

Shasgaliel · Sep 09, 2008, 01:39 PM // 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Firstly if polls are invalid then every president of America is elected by fraud heck why stop there every elected official to a government position over the entire world is there by electoral fraud, on second thoughts maybe America isn't the best example.

Thirdly that is a stupid request to ask for everyones money back, it's not even a realistic request that is feasible, however requesting something be put in the game that is reasonable isn't, you cannot go 2 extremes and call the other invalid if one of them is out right unrealistic.

I never saw a notification that this is an official poll and Anet is abide by its result. I can make a poll here about who will be the next US president and that will have the same significance I am afraid. Even if Anet themselves made a poll on the subject it does not mean that they will ever implement something on the basis of its results. It might be just an indication nothing more. The numbers are much too small yet to be significant to them even for this matter. It is even not a significant number of Guru users not mentioning the whole GW community.

Instead of proposing them 7 heroes we may propose them a poll on it (which people will be able to fill in when loading to the game). Then if many people reply yes we might have the matter brought back. Anet said "no" once already and not much changed since then.

As I stated before 7 heroes is a good idea but it is much too early for that.

Bryant Again · Sep 09, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

If your trying to avoid pugs cause you get frustrated, why? its pve, and a game, you'll get over it.

So the choices are either A. Play with PUGs and just "get over it", or B. Play by yourself and not have to deal with it in the first place.

Just one of many reasons why quite a few prefer to solo than to pug.

Also: It's AI not IA. People are going to think you're talking about increased attack speed or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The point is I could easily make another poll worded differently that would invalidate the results of this thread. I could make a poll asking "do you think Guild Wars was better when it was just Prophecies or just Prophecies and Factions" and I can guarantee it would get a resounding yes. Guess what didn't exist back then?

There are tons of reasons why people are going to say "yes" in that poll, the lack of heroes might not be one of them.

Also, what else didn't exist back then was a *much* larger and much more separated playerbase.

sixofone · Sep 09, 2008, 03:17 PM // 15:17

A poll is not a ballot, people. It's a sample - a representation that, theoretically, indicates a general trend, an indication of interest, nothing more. So, the fact that only 500 people on guru have been polled doesn't invalidate the poll. If the trend holds consistent across other fan sites, it's accurate. 85% of people playing GW would like the option of 7 heroes. That's what the poll indicates. Given a broader polling populace, the numbers may drop - or they may stay the same. All you can say for sure is that 85% of the people polled would prefer this option.

But, please, don't tell me the poll is invalid. You can poll 30 people or 300, and you do it to get a sense of "is there a trend?" with a given group.

Inner Salbat · Sep 09, 2008, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Also, what else didn't exist back then was a *much* larger and much more separated playerbase.

You know what that says to me? though each chapter they released people that owned previous chapters brought the new ones however new players declined, if they had increased the population should be big enough to support PuGs in any area.

Martin Firestorm · Sep 09, 2008, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That's rather a defeatist attitude any company that ignores it's community when it is over overwhelmingly obvious that the community is in favor of something as shown by the poll, would be morons to ignore it.

further more I've been thinking of ways to draw there attention to it maybe stage a sit in L.A or something.

Not really. I play the game they give me, and find ways to make it work for me, though its not like I really have to try much. If I were to become frustrated enough to stage a sit it at LA or otherwise try to force a change, my change would be to another game.